hey everyone,
am leaving for Baaaaaaaaaahston tomorrow a.m., for 4 days of pain fun. my boss and I sent out the info for our poster today to some company in georgia, in a little bit of a rush, some tense moments, and it will be delivered blown up to 36x48 inches to the hotel tomorrow. there are two posters that I worked on in all, one I will be seeing for the first time in Boston, since one of the other authors wrote it up (a psychologist who used to work at CHOP and now is at Boston Children's and Harvard). I will send you the posters (in powerpoint) attached to emails, I don't think that I can post them here on the blog. very exciting though, especially considering how much work I put into the miserable stuff. My first real scientific achievement. besides your dissertation, dad, I might be the first published researcher in the family...don't know if grandpa did any research.
will try to live it up in Boston as much as possible.
had a good weekend, got some breathing room after having so much company this month. can't believe that it is almost april. that means it's been a year since coming back from my trip. doesn't really seem that long ago. so much has happened, really.
hope everyone else is fine. Dad, hope you continue to feel better.
C, again, it was good to talk in the car. keep thinking about the human response to sudden traumatic events. I was thinking that even from a bio-psychological p.o.v. it would be interesting - overcoming the "fight or flight" response (we'll use that terminology even though it is a bit antiquated) to think about more than just oneself and one's survival. it's really overriding parts of the brain that say run run, or loot, loot, to think about the greater good. almost like tribalism. it would be interesting to put fMRIs onto people who consider themselves group or individual oriented and see what brain areas light up when confronted with simulations of these kinds of situations: terrorist attacks, black out in confined spaces... lots of cool shit could happen. definitely worth looking into.
JP, hope the writing is going well. Buy the newest Rolling Stone magazine... HST is on the cover and there are some amazing articles in there. Once describes how he writes and I think it could help you think about creating an environment that is conducive to writing.
all from me.
love,
H
- posted by H @ 3/28/2005 10:42:00 PM

 
Hey, everyone - I've been meaning to point you guys to a blog which I check every day: Davids Medienkritik, at http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/
It's subtitled "Politically Incorrect Observations on Reporting in the German Media."
I like it because it points out the most egregious examples of anti-Americanism in the German media, but it is generally a valuable resource because you can keep up with the mood in Germany. The 12.5% unemployment numbers make for a pretty bad mood.
That's it for me!
C
- posted by Christoph Roggenkamp @ 3/28/2005 12:03:00 PM

 
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The big 6-9. I will call you later on today, either while i am at work, or once I get home.
Love to all,
H
- posted by H @ 3/25/2005 08:59:00 AM

 
Happy 69th Birthday, Dad! I'll post more later today...
C
- posted by Christoph Roggenkamp @ 3/25/2005 12:55:00 AM

 
Short note on the Shiavo issue. Yes, suspicion can flare when considering the husband in this case. in the end though, through marriage he is the legal guardian. he is the one who makes the decisions. That is the law. is this really the kind of issue that should cause the current amount of turmoil in the house and senate? suspicions surrounding a possible involvement of his in her initial illness are pretty far fetched. she had been bulemic for years, and had a nutritional imbalance as a result. This kind of thing happens, which is why eating disorders are so dangerous. how the husband could somehow maliciously and directly cause an imbalance in her body is unknown.
also, I have mentioned it before that I consider in unethical to keep someone alive (or to want to have someone kept alive) over money. I stand by that.
all from me.
H
- posted by H @ 3/22/2005 04:12:00 PM

 
Yes, we had a good time at Dad's party at the house outside of Gettysburg. H parked the car in the hosts' garage, so Dad was truly surprised. Not that he jumped up and down or anything, but it was a really good time.
The group was a good one, with nicely different backgrounds. I might be somewhat off, but this was how I understood it - you had a pair of pastors, a woman in charge of social work at Hanover hospital, her husband the dentist, who likes to hunt the big game, and an HR / PR guy for Utz potatoes who had retired from the Army as a Lt. Colonel, with his wife (I'm not sure if she worked). Plus Dad, H and me.
What I especially liked was how good people were at changing the subject. Apparently, there is some kind of political scandal in York (or York County?) involving a woman working for the D.A. who left her job after 40 years. The Utz guy brought it up, and then the hostess mentioned that the woman was a cousin of hers by marriage. Her husband, the host, said, "Wow, the salad is really good," and everyone agreed. Subject changed!

I've noticed that when I post some long diatribe, I stay away from the blog for a few days, maybe waiting for the dust to settle.
In a nutshell, my biggest problem with the Schiavo case is that she did not make her wishes known to an extent that would satisfy me. That is, she may have said something to her husband, but I don't trust the guy to tell the truth. Because there's a possibility that she would have wanted to stay on the feeding tube, and because her parents are willing to take care of her and pay the costs of her care, I tend toward the viewpoint of keeping her alive. Simply put, I don't believe the husband when he says she told him, "no tubes" - I don't trust his motives. From what I understand, he was the only person there when she sustained her brain damage, and some people are suspicious of how exactly this happened. On top of that, he may have a financial interest in her dying. So I don't trust him.

I meant to keep this short, so I am psychologically able to post more often.

Keep up the good work, everyone! JP - you are right, having links that make the points of your arguments helps! I also cleaned up dozens of identical posts from Dad on 3/17...
C
- posted by Christoph Roggenkamp @ 3/22/2005 11:43:00 AM

 
ah, monday...
Well, the surprise was a success, and we had a great time at the Flinner's house with the Stenman's and Laab's. Good conversation and good food and drink. Dad got a lot of liquid presents, the coolest, I think from C and me, german beers from a special store in allentown.Schlenkerla, other bamberg beers, beer from wuerzburg, etc. and some german chocolate, kinderschokolade, ritter sport and the like.
C and I got a chance to talk a lot of the way there and back in teh car, mostly politics, and had some good discussions. we also hashed out some research we would want to do together in the future (once we both have PhDs) on groups of people's reactions to disasters (like 9/11, the tsnumai, and something like the power outage last year in NYC).we always seem to have a good time in the car together. We got to philly a little after 11 pm, after an uneventful drive (not like the one in december) and he caught a 9:22 am train out of philly after not too much sleep.
I am looking forward to some quiet time, and to next weekend, when I will have no work AND no visitors. 3 weekends of visitorsin a row is a lot.
Dad, hope you are feeling okay, and aren't drinking all of your presents at once.
C, say hi to Siobhan and JP, we should talk some time this week.
love,
H
- posted by H @ 3/21/2005 03:01:00 PM

 
something must have gotten a little screwy with your last post, dad. I think ming got into the wiring or something. definitely an inside job.
the only comment I have regarding the Shiavo case is as follows: yes, it is unfortunate that this woman never made out a will or talked to anyone about her wishes. side note: we should all put down some guidelines for the worse case senario, both verbally and in writing. I have already talked it over with gavin, and plan on putting it into writing soon. anyway, theoretically, yes, we do not know her wishes, hence do not know how to procede based on what she would want. it's been 10 YEARS though. let's be practical - something has to be done. again, I am not sure of the law, but I thought that when someone gets married, their spouse is the one who has the final say over anyone else, even the parents. this woman is over 18 and hence parents don't really have any say anymore. and yeah, I heard something about the guy getting some money if terry finally dies. so people are keeping her alive over MONEY???? how unethical is that?
and I am not sure about the whole "cruel and unusual punishment" thing either. that seems like awfully heady stuff to be laying down for discussion in this case. some people would consider keeping someone alive artificially because their parents don't want their husband to have some money cruel and unusual punishment, but I am only guessing. you said it would be considered cruel and unusual punishment to withdraw support WITHOUT her consent, but she can not give consent, so that argument (or p.o.v.) flies right out the window for me. additionally, it is possible to keep someone comfortable while they withdraw support. it's called morphine. Mrs. Shiavo would not need to be in any pain, she could just close her eyes for a last time and never wake up. then she would not need to be fed with a tube with bed sores while people squabble over her life, motivated not by HER best interests (in some cases) but instead their agenda (be it personal or political).
selah.
love,
H
- posted by H @ 3/17/2005 07:17:00 PM

 
This is going to be a long post…
JP –
I’ll try to quickly respond to some of your points today. I agree that these terrorists were nothing new to the scene – look at the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the bombing of the embassies in Africa, the attack on the Cole, as well as terrorist action in the 1970s and 1980s. But until the sneak attacks on American soil, there was not a perception of this being part of a larger whole – we ignored the problem for decades, hoping it would go away. It didn’t – it just got worse.
Of course, citizens fighting an invading force can gain a lot of sympathy and support. But this label didn’t apply to the 9/11 attackers. Nor does it apply to the terrorists blowing up a lot of Iraqis and occasionally Americans in Iraq. The vast majority of these people are not Iraqs – they are outside “invaders” looking to defeat democracy in Iraq. Thankfully, Iraqi popular opinion has turned against them: look at this article on Strategy Page today.
Here’s the first paragraph, with my emphasis added:
Iraqi popular opinion has turned against terrorism in a big way. Apparently the key event was the revelation that Osama bin Laden had appointed Abu Musab al Zarqawi as "Emir" (leader) of al Qaeda efforts in Iraq and commanded him to go forth and kill big-time. But as suicide bombing attacks increasingly failed to reach American targets, and killed Iraqis instead, it appeared that a Saudi (bin Laden) was telling a Jordanian (Zarqawi) to kill Iraqis. This attitude never made headlines, but it slowly spread among Sunni Arab Iraqis over the last year. Sunni Arab areas where were most of the violence was, particularly after Shia Arab demagogue Moqtada Sadr stopped instigating violence (because he found that he had much less popular support than he believed). Once the Sunni Arabs turned against terrorism, the terrorists found themselves operating in an increasingly hostile environment.

You are right that there is a distinction between fighting injustice and spreading it. Look at the IRA today – it began by fighting injustice and now is accused of spreading it – see the biggest cash robbery in the world (last December in Belfast) as well as the brutal killing of McCartney in January.

I don’t know much about the Shining Path, but looking at the entry about them on Wikipedia, they look to me to be inherently evil, and not victims of spin. I don’t know if you find the following acts evil, but I do (again with my emphasis):
- In one of its last attacks, on July 16, 1992, the militants detonated a powerful bomb on Tarata Street in Lima, killing more than forty people and destroying several buildings. During this period, Shining Path also targeted specific individuals, notably leaders of other leftist groups, local political parties, labor unions, and peasant organizations, some of whom were anti-Sendero Marxists.
- In August, 1991, the group killed two Polish and one Italian priest in the department of Ancash. They later blew up their bodies with dynamite.
- According to a 1988 report in the Los Angeles Times, "the insurgents hung the women on a wall and hacked them with knives and machetes before slitting their throats."

Murdering community leaders; killing priests and detonating their bodies; hanging women on a wall and hacking them to bits before cutting their throats - is evil, in my moral universe.

Also, your suggestion that a “wellplaced charge” (EMP, I’m guessing?) would certainly cost millions and royally screw the economy. But any major disruption to the economy would affect the neediest of society the worst. Homeless people who depend on functioning civil services for food, occasional shelter; poor people who live hand-to-mouth. These people would bear the brunt of any such action – wealthy people have contingency plans, or the resources to bribe their way to relative safety. So I think that along with making some point about dependency on oil, advocating this kind of thing also is saying, “Screw the poor – they are expendable – my point is more important than their lives, happiness, whatever.”

Dad – congrats on getting your computer to work. Regarding the IRA, the current matters are not religious in nature – IRA bigwigs (Catholic, of course) beat a loyal Catholic guy (McCartney) to death because his friend may have said something inappropriate to a woman in a bar. I don’t know if you can consider a major bank robbery to have religious overtones – I guess you could try to find out the faiths of its depositors, owners, etc.

I agree that Social Security is a much smaller problem than Medicare. But you have to give the Republicans some credit in bringing any of these problems to the public’s attention. It is much more courageous for a politician to say “you can trade away your children’s retirement money for your own comfort, or we can sit down and try to hammer out a solution” than to deny there is a problem at all, which is what the Democrats seem to be doing. I don’t understand this strategy – once the shortfalls become painfully apparent (decades down the road), even if they had failed to amend Social Security, Republicans can say, “We tried, but the Democrats said there was no problem. Blame them for not wanting to change things while we still could.”

H – regarding Schiavo, I think the problem for me is that she never clearly made her wishes known regarding euthanasia, etc. If she were to say that she wanted to starve to death, I would say, “no problem.” But the husband may have interests that are not in Schiavo’s best interest, and so his judgment is suspect. One interesting point I read today is that if she were a prisoner, she would have much greater support than she does now – withdrawing her food supply without her consent would be seen as “cruel and unusual punishment” and no court would ever allow it. Maybe they should have her arrested if they want to keep her alive.
My hang up is that they are letting her starve to death, without her consent. I don’t think that conflicts with (my understanding of) libertarian beliefs.

(More than) enough for now.
C
- posted by Christoph Roggenkamp @ 3/17/2005 03:31:00 PM

 
quite a volume of stuff here. I kinda want to hear about JP winning all the cash? what's the deal with that???
Regarding the IRA and their offer to just kill the guys responsible for the murder, I find it amazing that they would even offer that. from a psychological p.o.v., it seems to me that (no surprise, in lieu of their history) the organization is completely removed from the regular social norms of behavior, as in life is precious and one cannot simply kill at will. it's surprising that they would even come out and say that in public. it's a great example of how brainless people can become when they believe in one cause so strongly.
Terry Shiavo. This is a woman who has been unable to support her own life for the last 10 years, and has been given life-sustaining support to survive. Traditionally, and legally, I think, once a person is married, it is ultimately the spouse who makes the decisions. hence, the husband is the one who should be calling the shots. he has been demonized as over the course of 10 years he has found companionship with another, and they are trying (successfully) to take that right away from him. This whole thing is political, and Jeb Bush would not be slinging his figurative guns around if there wasn't the whole adultury, right to life thing. Think of the drain on the medical system due to this woman's 10 year life support and medical tx. As far as I know, she has not made any improvements over the last 10 years. Due to the high level of politics involved, I think that it is unethical to use someone's life, or lack of it, to further your political agenda. What is the point of having a person in Mrs. Shiavo's state alive, if only for her parents?? I see this on the NICU. Doctors keeping babies alive not for the babies' sake, but the parents. the babies are suffering for the parents psychological peace of mind ("we did everything medically possible, and beyond, to treat this baby"). I feel uncomfortable thinking about that. Parents need to take upon themselves the responsibility of facing their own emotional suffering and closure, instead of making their children suffer physically so that they can not feel guilty (however fleeting that might be). And again, lets all meditate on our ideas of quality of life.
C, based on your views as a libertarian, wouldn't you be more in favor of the husband making the decision (based on the law), as opposed to everyone trying to put their two cents in for political reasons? Wouldn't you advocate as little gov. involvement as possible in this case?
Re: conspiracy theories in blogs...
I think that there is difference between the conspiracy theories you mentioned (Waco, etc) and dad implying that our present adminstration has ties to oil companies and hence will benefit monetarily from oil price increases, if maybe a bit remotely.
As far as the Clintons' not supporting John Kerry, well, yeah, Hillary probably will run in 2008 (I hope so), but I recall Bill being very supportive of Kerry. What's ludicrous about that conspiracy theory is that someone would have quadruple bipass surgery to avoid supporting a candidate.
don't we all remember billy chomping down fast food, etc, and the stress that he experienced during his 8 years in office?? there is a link between stress and a bad (HIGH MEAT) diet, and heart disease. just look at the stats...
All from me.
JP, what about that money???
love,
H
- posted by H @ 3/15/2005 04:21:00 PM

 
Regarding blogging, I seem to be hot and cold. Sometimes, more than a week will go by and I'll write nothing, and other times, I feel like writing all the time! Hopefully, we four can keep the blogging ball rolling (keep the b-log rolling?) and continue to post!

Dad - we have been having a back-and-forth over the last few years about democracy in the Middle East and its neighbors. You noted that you were pessimistic about democracy in the Middle East in your post of March 2nd. An article in The American Enterprise on events in the region contains a quote from Abraham Lincoln which I really like (emphasis in the original):

Most governments have been based, practically, on the denial of the equal rights of men...Ours began by affirming those rights.
They said some men are too ignorant and vicious to share in government. Possibly so, said we; and by your system, you would always keep them ignorant and vicious.
We proposed to give all a chance; and we expected the weak to grow stronger, the ignorant wiser, and all better, and happier together.

I am optimistic about the propects in this region, especially after the events of the last few weeks, where the 'real' Arab street finally made its voice known.

I'd also like to link to an article by the New York Times entitled Liberal Bloggers Reaching Out to Major Media. In the article, there's a quote by Kristinn Taylor of (the admittedly right wing) FreeRepublic.com, giving advice to liberal and progressive bloggers: "They might have to outgrow the conspiracy-theory stage of blogging to produce reports that are credible and relevant to a wider audience."
I know that there are many conspiracy theories on both sides - I can remember all that black helicopter stuff after Janet Reno went after Waco, as well as all the theories about Vince Foster's death - some even claimed Bill Clinton personally killed him. But throwing conspiracy theories into your arguments doesn't help make your point, in my opinion. Here, I'm referring to your statement regarding oil prices, Dad, on March 10th - "It will get worse with the present administration - guess who profits from high energy prices?"
However, there is one conspiracy theory I would discuss - that the Clintons withheld their support from John Kerry so Hillary could run against a non-incumbent in 2008. The timing of Bill's surgery last fall seemed a bit convienient to me... There I go, doing the same thing! Oh, well.

(On that note, even though Condi said on Meet the Press that she wouldn't run, I still am hoping for a Condi Rice - Hillary Clinton match-up in 2008! The first woman president, and maybe the first black president! That would be a race! If Condi can get even 50% of the black vote, she'd be a shoo-in...)

Enough for now!
C
- posted by Christoph Roggenkamp @ 3/15/2005 02:05:00 PM

 
Hey everyone. A lot of things going on right now.
After last week's pro-occupation rally of about 500,000 people in Lebanon, sponsored by Hezbollah, there was another anti-occupation rally today, with Lebanon's leading TV station and some police estimating the crowd at one million. In a country of 3.5 million, that's a huge turnout against the Syrian occupation forces! AP story is here.

Then, there's the whole IRA debacle. If you didn't hear about the brutal murder of Robert McCartney in January, and the ensuing IRA coverup of the crime, you'd be surprised at the details. This Catholic guy was beaten to death so brutally, he lost an eye in the process. His friend had his throat slit, but survived. The IRA men involved in the murder cleaned up the bar where it happened, took the surveillance videotape, and told the 75 witnesses to shut up. But instead of accepting what had happened, McCartney's 5 sisters have put so much pressure on obtaining justice that the IRA has even offered to EXECUTE four of the men involved in the murder. That's what got my attention, that the IRA would have the ability to offer this concession, and that the IRA would think this was an acceptable outcome, shooting four of the men involved. The McCartney sisters will take the place of the IRA/Sinn Fein for the traditional dinner at the White House this week. On top of this, even Senator Ted Kennedy has cancelled his planned meeting with the Sinn Fein reps this week. This murder, along with the spectacular Belfast bank robbery last December, puts a real PR problem in hands of the IRA. Article here. For the first time that I can remember, some people have begun comparing the IRA to the Nazis. UPDATE: London Times article with the whole story here.

Finally, I think the Schiavo case is a bit more complicated than you make it seem, JP, when you said "Let's hope Mrs. Shiavo can die" a couple of weeks ago. First of all, there's the question of who has the right to make the decision to remove a feeding tube if the person never made his/her wishes known. In Terri Schiavo's case, her parents want her to live, and her husband wants her to die. I'm not sure I know who has a better claim on this decision-making process. On top of it all, her parents are willing to care for her; they don't want her to starve to death, which is what her husband is suggesting. If you have someone whose wishes are unclear, and you have family who are willing to take care of him/her, I personally would not go down the starvation route. The Miami Herald has the latest story here.

A lot going on!
C
- posted by Christoph Roggenkamp @ 3/14/2005 04:44:00 PM

 
C, I have heard the same things about tobacco. I bet that you could find stuff on that pretty easily. I just wish that Philly would stop dragging its heels and pass a no-smoking law in bars. The air in bars definitely makes me not want to go. who wants to go home smelling like smoke?
Dad, if you are having trouble with travelocity, you can always call one of us with the information and we can book the ticket for you.
My friends Rory and Amy are coming to philly this weekend. it's been a very busy month with guests. they will not be going to Dali, in order to save money, so we will go to the medical oddities museum and just hang out. they keep talking about some surprise for me that I suspect involves vegan food. Dad, I will talk to them about taking care of Ming while they are here.
Next weekend some of gavin's friends, who are now also my friends, will be coming up to philly for a visit. no quiet moments here at all.
I am already getting a bit geared up for Boston. I leave on the 29th of this month! very exciting.
otherwise, not much to report.
Love,
H
- posted by H @ 3/10/2005 05:54:00 PM

 
JP - Keep up the good work with the non-smoking. Smoking freaks me out, because it is guaranteed to shorten your life. Drinking isn't great, either, but some studies have shown that drinking a little bit each day can be healthy. But smoking is just bad. Problems everywhere - lungs, heart, bladder (Dad!), etc.

What also annoys me is my understanding that the tobacco people smoked 150 years ago was much less addictive. I have to find some hard sources for this, but I read somewhere that when the southern states lost their slave labor for the growing of cotton, they bred tobacco plants to find the most addictive ones, to create a new cash crop. So, its a big agribusiness conspiracy! (Though, like I said, I need to find out the facts on that one.)

Dad - I'm glad you had a good trip to Philly. I need to visit again, myself! Your hybrid is getting more commercial air time - I've seen the ad for it a half dozen times now. Ever since I drove yours, I'm warming to the idea. It has good pickup, and its cool to feel the electrical motor pull you along when you are just cruising. They have some gas/electric hybrid city buses here now in Manhattan. I don't know how much more fuel efficient they are, but they sure are quieter! And, you can fit some really big batteries into a city bus.
The Honda hybrid ads show it getting 47 mpg city and 48 mpg highway. I don't know how close to reality this is, though.

Well, sorry for the slow blogging - I'll post more though.

C
- posted by Christoph Roggenkamp @ 3/10/2005 02:20:00 PM

 
JP, glad to hear that the non-smoking is continuing!!! I will have to send you a care package or something with various non-smoking items...
Dad, you will have to come back to philly once it gets warm out and we can be outside more. Then I can show you Fairmount Park (at your pace of course), center city, etc. once you look past the trash and run down neighborhoods, philly's nice. we will do more next time you come. we didn't even get to do the medical oddities museum. don't you want to see early versions of gynecological tools? maybe you could visit some time in june or july?? or even may??
cold here in philly. busy at work. we now have 55 completed participants, people whom we have collected all info for. we need 85, so it feels good to be roughly 2/3's done. in my adolescent pain study we are cleaning up all of our data and are almost ready to do data analysis and poster stuff. so lots of stuff going on.
otherwise things are quiet.
love to all,
H
- posted by H @ 3/09/2005 03:46:00 PM

 
one more comment to this anti-vegan propaganda. I found an article about the same study on the BBC website, and the study was supported by the NATIONAL CATTLEMAN'S BEEF ASSOCIATION. talk about special interest group...
here's the link...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4282257.stm

Enjoy. Love,
H
- posted by H @ 3/04/2005 09:04:00 AM

 
here's a fun little article.. so nice that people might finally be made aware of the fact that the meat they just ate has been recalled. yum yum. check this out:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/diet.fitness/03/03/bc.food.recall.reut/index.html

may you all have good health.
H
- posted by H @ 3/03/2005 06:19:00 PM

 
Interesting article... now it's time to tear that study apart. I would like to find the article itself, and look at their study design, how they controlled for all children getting the exact same nutrition and amount of food for those years, etc.
So they divided 554 Kenyan children into four groups: one got two ounces of meat each day, two others were given equivalent calories in milk or oil, and one group got no supplement.
that's all well and good, but it's a fact that neither milk nor oil (and what kind of oil: olive, vegetable?) have the same amount of protein as meat. if people think that vegans don't consume ANY protein, then they do not know anything about the typical western vegan today. the typical vegan eats soy protein, nuts, etc, as a protein supplement. what about SOY PROTEIN for this study???? the study would have at least a modicum of clout in my book if they had given the kids equivalent protein or calories through soy each day, as a fifth group. that assumptions could be made about the health of vegan/vegetarian diets. I think it's a no-brainer that kids who received protein vs. kids who didn't thrived better. and what about vegans who supplement? I supplement with B vitamins and folic acid, nutrients otherwise only found in animal product. B vitamins are really important for brain health. it's insane and unethical for this researcher to use the kind of strong language that she does against Western vegan diets.
Also, all supplement groups weighed more and had greater muscle development in their upper arms. Also, they report "35 points higher score on an intelligence, etc, test for the meat group compared with 14 point higher score for the dairy and oil groups, vs. the no supplement group." what is the SCALE of the test? is it a 100 point scale, 500 point??? so ambiguous.
also the duration of the study: two years. that's not really a long time when you think about it. if you tracked kids from birth to adulthood you might have some data that is applicable for generalizations...
I would also like to see some info on the studies from the US and NEtherlands that were mentioned. you can't just throw those accusations aruond with ANYTHING to back up what you are saying.
To sum up, I think that the article was VERY badly written, and really mostly propaganda. people need to think critically when these kinds of harsh accusations are thrown around.
now that's what I call unethical.
all from me.
love,
H
- posted by H @ 3/03/2005 05:34:00 PM

 
H:
Here's a link to the London Times article I mentioned to you on the phone:
Forcing your child to follow a vegetarian diet is unethical, top nutrition expert says

I like Dad's and JP's posts. I'll put up my comments later tonight!

C
- posted by Christoph Roggenkamp @ 3/02/2005 09:28:00 PM